KameDaniRyuu 亀ダニ流

Interviewing Nintendo’s Shigeru Miyamoto On the Appeal of Pikmin 3 - “When it comes to interactive media, a connection to one’s self is the most fun.”

The Hero of This Game Isn’t a Character but the Player Themself

4Gamer:
   Due to the way the Pikmin feel more like living things, I think you also feel a lot more sad when a Pikmin is killed by an enemy like a Bulborb.
   Thinking of it logically, you know that even if they die you can always get more and it’ll be fine but somehow it still doesn’t feel good.

Miyamoto:
   It hits you harder even more than war movies, no? (laughs)
   I think it’s good to have chances to consider things like that.  In the movie “Saving Private Ryan,” the theme is that of an extreme decision to possibly lose many to save one person but what was the person who made the decision thinking?  I’ve considered things like this while at work.
  Though I didn’t specifically consider something like that when making Pikmin, when you create things based on the natural way of things, sometimes unexpected things do happen and if you can say that what you just saw in the game made you feel something you hadn’t until that point… if you can say you’ve have the chance to experience that, I think that is something appealing about that game as a product.
   Even when making 1, when the Red Pikmin are just staring at you or you watch the Pikmin looking up at the rocket flying away,  you feel mixed things.  I think it’s good to experience feelings like that.

4Gamer:
   I agree.  In spite of its simplistically drawing style, it does make you feel mixed feelings nonetheless.

Miyamoto:
   Some may mistakenly say something like things like this that stir up complicated feelings or something that people are hesitant to discuss because it is difficult aught not be shown to children but since there are things in the real world that they resemble, I think it is good if we let kids watch without making a big deal over it being shown.

4Gamer:
   Perhaps it is something like making them aware of the value of life though Pikmin.

Miyamoto:
   Well in that regard, and this is not a disclaimer but, we’ve considered if it is possible to play without killing even one Pikmin.
   I’m happy to say that in 1 you can play without killing even one.  For 3 I thought it may be an impossible request but I asked the people working on debugging to play without killing even one.  In the end, according to the guys on the debug team, they were able to confirm you can play without killing even one so we were able to send the ROM out as ready.
   Still, in spite of their confirmation, if you suspect something while playing, there may be some kind of reason behind that.

4Gamer:
   You mean like at the end of a day, if a single Pikmin is left out in the wild, you have some uneasy feeling in the back of your head like something went wrong.

Miyamoto:
   Well, you can find all the Pikmin left on the GamePad.  However, there will be times where you can’t go and save them in time.  So, those are the kinds of situations where it would be good to restart a day. (laughs)
   In the past, with games you get into the most, you’d play a bit and if you didn’t like how it went, you’d reset the game.  You keep doing it over until you’ve done it perfectly in your eyes.  I think it would be nice if that way of playing was still around today.

4Gamer:
   It’s not an exhaustive way of playing but instead you play until you’ve had your fill.

Miyamoto:
   Correct.  In that regard, when it comes to the presentation, there isn’t anything included beyond what is necessary.  Some may say that the ending of story mode may not have enough build up but we dared to do it that way on purpose.  There’s the presentation style of moving the player to tears by playing violin music but the other stance is that if the person playing the game can experience something by themselves, that is the most interesting.
   In other words, the hero isn’t the characters but the player themself and the characters acts as something like the extension of the player.

4Gamer:
   In this generation, and this is not just limited to games, there are many cases of too much explanation but in the case of Pikmin it is the opposite technique.  However, I don’t think putting together such a complete product in that way is done by others.

Miyamoto:
   We were able to achieve that because we started from developing everyone’s “grasp of Pikmin.”
   Right now, the director in charge of overseeing overall design and the director in charge of overseeing overall programming have over 10 years of established history and they made the goals clear.  Even those working on the writing have a deep “grasp of Pikmin”.

4Gamer:
   So when 1 was being made, that “grasp of Pikmin” wasn’t something everyone shared?

Miyamoto:
   That’s correct.  It developed while we were making the game.
   For this game, beyond discussing the necessity of a funny reveal in the main story like Pikmin 2, the direction was to remove anything that wasn’t necessary as much as possible to let the player push their scores higher and higher.

4Gamer:
   Remove?

Miyamoto:
   Yeah.  Even though there are 3 heroes, it wasn’t about giving them their own personalities and role but instead designing them as throwable tools.  It was something like as long as they can be used to make it to places at different heights, that’s fine.  In other words, it’s like the three of them are included in the game not due to their necessity in the story but as facets of the game itself.

4Gamer:
   That makes sense.

Miyamoto:
   For example, when controlling one person to throw the remaining two to the next place to move on, the point of making 3 heroes becomes clear.  To give an example, when it comes to going between places of different height, if there are two people you can throw someone once and only go up one level but with three, you can throw two others and go up two levels.
  So in 2, with only switching between two characters, you couldn’t be too much more effective or plan better by switching between them.  However, in this game, you can move all three of them around as you see fit with the GamePad.  You can also divide up the Pikmin among them and delegate jobs.  Of course there is more to it than that but when working on pushing the score higher and higher, it has a big effect on doing it effectively.

4Gamer:
   So the head count was made to fit what the game system needed.

Miyamoto:
   That’s right.  When we were making it, we solidified a lot of things.  One of which was that it was fun to have three heroes.
   … To tell the truth, for last year’s E3 presentation, there were actually four heroes.  However, when it came to the controls of swapping between four, there were points where it got complicated and in the end, we dropped down to three.

4Gamer:
   So three heroes was the point just before it got too complicated.
   Still, what was the aim in making three different heroes that hadn’t been in the series to this point?

Miyamoto:
   Even I don’t quite know since that was something decided within the team.  Even I assumed Olimar was going to appear at some point during the game. (laughs)

4Gamer:
   Oh, is that right? (laughs)

Adding New Types of Pikmin Gave Birth to Deeper Play 

4Gamer:
    For this game,  not only have the amount of heroes increased but the types of Pikmin have also grown.
   By adding Pikmin with different abilities like the Stone and Winged Pikmin, weren’t you concerned the game would get too complicated?

Miyamoto:
   We weren’t.  By adding Purple Pikmin and White Pikmin to the story mode of 2, there may have been a few too many Pikmin types and it may have gotten a bit too complicated but I think the Stone and Winged Pikmin are really well balanced.
   Pikmin is a game all about discovering new paths.  Still, it’s also mostly making bridges and breaking down walls.  Only the Winged Pikmin, however, have their own special ability and there are paths only they can go to.
   Thus far only Blue Pikmin could move through water but Winged Pikmin are able to get to farther places even Blue Pikmin couldn’t so it has deepened the path finding aspect of the gameplay.

4Gamer:
   I see.

Miyamoto:
   In addition to that, being able to aim where the Pikmin can be thrown with the Wiimote Pointer more easily conveys the fun of aiming and throwing in action games .  I think the easiest way to understand how that works is like continuously throwing stones.  And for that reason, there are the Stone Pikmin.

4Gamer:
   It feels good when the Stone Pikmin crash into glass, doesn’t it?

Miyamoto:
   Right?  Even though Pikmin are referred to as plants, I thought “stone” sounds like a dumb, dense guy but there weren’t any other ideas and in line with their job, they became “Stone Pikmin.”  Still, once they got that name, it was more natural than expected and no one thought it was strange so that’s something funny.  (laughs)
   Bringing everything together like that makes each Pikmin’s role clearly defined so I don’t think it is complicated.  The value of Blue Pikmin went down a bit but now you can do something like sending in the Winged Pikmin first and then can follow them up with the Blue Pikmin.
   From a strategic standpoint, I think that made the gameplay deeper without becoming too complicated.

4Gamer:
   In the same vein, it is probably important to be able to imagine a Pikmin’s role just from what they are named.

Miyamoto:
   I think people playing for the first time are most likely able to understand what a Pikmin does from just seeing them.  Still, either way, when it comes to Purple Pikmin, it’s hard to figure out that even just one of them can carrying stuff simply by looking at them. (laughs)

4Gamer:
   Definitely.

Miyamoto:
   It is also possible to grasp how they are used little by little.
   Some examples would be, Stone Pikmin do the most damage the second they hit into something so it is best to collect them back together and throw them as many times as you can or even though Winged Pikmin have low attack power, they are effective against airborne things.
   Yellow Pikmin are the fastest at digging holes and in this game there’s a good deal of hole digging content.   You can dig tunnels or dig up items.  The game is designed so that you come to understand using the right Pikmin for the right job as you are commanding them.

4Gamer:
   While playing, as you get a grasp of how to use the right Pikmin for the right job, you naturally are able to plan how to be more effectively too.

Miyamoto:
   Yeah.  Pikmin is a game where you play while trying to use time as effectively as possible so we’ve tried as much as we can to make it as easy to see how to do that.
   To give an example, in 1 bridges and walls were the same.  So in places where it seemed you could make a bridge you would stick your Pikmin there and they would make one or you would stick your Pikmin on a wall to see if it would break.  In other words, it was only a question of if it would increase the time or would decrease the time.
   However for this game, we’ve included elements where you make your Pikmin carry pieces of a bridge so, you can have a few Pikmin carry pieces that are close by while sending the majority of your Pikmin to get pieces that are farther away.  If get the balance right, both groups will finish what they are doing at about the same time.  We gave careful consideration to being able to grasp that based on what you are seeing.

4Gamer:
   To increase your effectiveness you plan on the most appropriate places to send your Pikmin and if you do it perfectly, it’s great.

Miyamoto:
   Yeah.  For someone who is good, you can send groups of 2 or 3 Pikmin here and there at the same time and make them do different jobs.  When they finish what they are doing there is a chime that sounds to confirm a job is done and to head over to collect them.
   Still, sometimes there’s a yell like “Ahhhh!” and somewhere one has died or something.  When that happens, you need to go and check who died.

4Gamer:
   You feel really guilty if you let one die off somewhere you can’t see them…

Miyamoto:
  You feel a bit ashamed of yourself. (laughs)
  You send a Pikmin off to carry fruits back and while you’re working on something else in a different place you hear a cry.  When you go to check you see a fruit rolling around on the ground near an Onion.  You feel like there was a Bulborb in the area so why did you leave it alone out there…
   At times like that, resetting and redoing that day is better emotionally.

No Matter What Else, Pikmin is an Action Game With Strategy Sitting On Top of That

4Gamer:
   At points when playing, even though you think planning things one way was going to go well, the plan doesn’t look like it is going to come together as you hope.  But after a little bit of time passes, suddenly things go smoothly.  I think this game has lots of joyful moments like this.

Miyamoto:
   When playing action games, sometimes there’s a free moment and you are able to look over your surroundings.  When that happens, even though you already have a plan in mind, you see things you didn’t before and can calmly readjust your strategy.
   Moments like this are one of the enjoyable things about action games and I think it is something you can experience even if you aren’t too good at action games.  

4Gamer:
   I wondered if in addition to increasing the amount of heroes and Pikmin if the strategic elements of this game had also been improved.
  Did you consider improving those elements even thought it is an action game?

Miyamoto:
   The truth is we were doing prototype tests of Pikmin for the DS and 3DS but it turned into unit management with only the touch pen and no matter what it just didn’t seem like Pikmin.
   We concluded that Pikmin is a game that revolves around action based on its controls and the strategy sits on top that.  Although there are elements that are built on the strategy, there are other overall things that have to be well considered.  This complete experience is an important elements of Pikmin.

4Gamer:
   That complete experience isn’t well emulated by other games.

Miyamoto:
   Yeah.  Also, if you only give directions to the player and stop there, the game becomes only about the score.  Pikmin involves a score but I think the parts not involving records are also fun.  You can simply look around or move around, for example. 

4Gamer:
   Even in moving yourself around, Pikmin is a little bit different.  Although though you are moving yourself, there is a lot to simply look at.

Miyamoto:
   The truth is when we made 1, we were trying to make the easiest to control 3D game around.
   The focal point was Olimar walking around on screen but the majority of the interface was those controls.  They didn’t interfere with anything else.  There weren’t many 3D games that were that simple to move around in since you could play without even having to control the camera.

4Gamer:
   When you put it that way, I see what you mean.

Miyamoto:
   This game may seem difficult on first glance but once you try the controls, it’s easy.  Even if you find using the pointer difficult, there is a control method using the Gamepad similar to the previous Gamecube titles that we’d like people to utilize.
   To that end, we hope people are able to look at this as a carefree, easy action game.

4Gamer:
   When compared to previous action games there are less buttons being used too.
   It’s amazing when you think about it that such a demanding, strategic action game elements are built on simple easy controls.

Miyamoto: 
   Yeah.  We mentioned it before but as the challenges increase, there are parts where you are able to play while seeing the coming challenges.  I think those are fun.
   In a way, it is something like money.  You could say it’s like whether you understand the value of 1 yen.  If you have a lot, you can carelessly play around but if you are missing even 1 yen, there are times you will have trouble so when you have 100 yen, you need to use every single yen carefully.

4Gamer:
   Right, yes.  I understand.

Miyamoto:
   And, sometimes you know you have to work diligently but without giving it full focus, you rush and do something careless.
  For example, you may have wanted to send the minimum amount of Pikmin out to bring something back but since you sent out a large group, you carelessly call too many back.

4Gamer:
   I’ve done that before.  You yell at some of them like “I didn’t call you back!”

Miyamoto:
   That’s one of the spots where it is like an action game.
   Well….  This is something that occured to me since I made the game but although it is an action game, half of everything is by the Pikmin.  I don’t think there are games that have so many aspects of this and that done by things other than the player.
   For a standard action game, the main character carries things and is controlled by themselves but for this game the Pikmin do it for you.  The result is an action game where the hero moves around 100 Pikmin at the same time.
   In a way it is like a sports game.  You’re not just moving one person around; you need to carefully place everyone and then they all work together.

4Gamer:
  It’s conjures up the image a soccer or baseball game.  That never occurred to me…
  Still, Pikmin can be seen as a type of RTS game as well.  Could you tell us any thoughts you have on that?

Miyamoto: 
    I know RTS games are popular overseas but when we were making the game, we made sure to not start from that idea.
   If I look back on it, a long time ago there was a PC game called M.U.L.E.  I had made exclusively action games but at some point vaguely felt like “ahh, I want to make a game like that.”  There are parts of Pikmin 1 that are connected to that.

4Gamer:
   So the planet-discovery strategy came from that game!

Miyamoto:
Well, it’s not like we were imitating M.U.L.E. but some part of the finished product was inspired by it.
   Still, it’s not that we looked at a well known game and made something from that.  When looking at the all new product we stuck with making, even though we did something simple, I do feel it came to have a depth similar to RTSes,  However, it’s not that Pikmin is an RTS.  It’s an action game and I think it is it’s own new genre that nothing else resembles.
   Still, in a way, I think Pikmin 3 does have the potential to be received by players in America with as much zeal as PC RTS games.

4Gamer: 
   Since Pikmin has been well loved in America from before.

Miyamoto:
   That’s right.  It’s almost like it is even more popular in America than Japan.  For this game we have the same expectations for America and Japan so I’m looking forward to it.

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